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- "Russian culture is the most powerful component of the world, it's ridiculous to deny it"
"Russian culture is the most powerful component of the world, it's ridiculous to deny it"
Artistic director of the Nikitsky Gate Theater Mark Rozovsky will receive the prestigious Golden Mask award for the first time. The People's Artist of Russia will be honored on March 27 on a professional holiday on the stage of the GABT together with Nikita Mikhalkov, Marina Neelova, Natalia Tenyakova. As the director says, the professional community lacks the law on theater and the law on patronage. He believes that there are oligarchic theaters, middle-class theaters and homeless theaters in Russia, but this should not be the case, and the government should help the most needy venues with money. Izvestia met with Mark Rozovsky and discussed the pressing and eternal problems of performing arts.
"They refused Stanislavsky, they even laughed at him"
— On March 27, the Day of the Theater, the Bolshoi will host the ceremony of awarding special awards "Golden Mask" — "For outstanding contribution to the development of theatrical art" and "For the support of theatrical art in Russia." You are among the laureates. Have you or your theater been awarded the Golden Mask before?
— No, I did not receive this award.
— Why do you think that is?
— Well, it's no secret: the Golden Mask is an updated award today. Maybe that's why I was among those she noticed. For many decades, the Golden Mask was not conceptually a national award. It turned into a kind of celebration for amateurs.
And what is dilettantism? It inevitably leads to quackery. This is not my conclusion, Konstantin Sergeyevich Stanislavsky and especially Vladimir Ivanovich Nemirovich-Danchenko fought against charlatanism in the theater. That was 100 years ago. In the same 20s of the last century, there was also Meyerhold. The largest and most powerful figure of the Russian and Soviet theater, a student of Stanislavsky and his aesthetic opponent. But they existed in a single theatrical space. Although if we recall the atmosphere of that time, there was already a struggle against the so-called Meyerholders.
— Those who worked for him?
— These were both imitators and people who did not have the culture of Meyerhold. Vsevolod Emilievich knew world culture, was a phenomenally educated man who understood Commedia dell'arte like no one else. He was really a stage reformer. Mr. Eyerhold created a landmark school of conditional theater in Russia. But this did not mean that the "theater of representation" was easily combined with the "theater of experience", which Stanislavsky advocated. Only now, at the intersection of these two directions, it seems to me, there are the most modern theaters. And all over the world.
— Is there room for reform now?
— The one-sidedness that, from my point of view, the Golden Mask showed, and the fact that it did not support the main path of development of the Russian theater and the Russian theater school, is an omission. The psychological theater, for example, has been subjected to terrible attacks. Stanislavsky's name has been used many times for some strange purposes. Konstantin Sergeyevich was rejected, and they even laughed at him. It was a sign of aggressive lack of culture, an attack on a living traditional culture. And these are the values for which hundreds of the most talented people in Russia have served sincerely, powerfully and deeply.
A real, big culture with its fundamental values, developed by all of humanity, and not over a decade or twenty years, but over the centuries, is not in danger. But attacks on culture in real, everyday and hectic theatrical life are all the time.
— And you will be told that this is not an attack, but an experiment. And these figures also have the right to reform.
— What is an experiment? It is very important. Of course, Meyerhold talked a lot about the experiment and was a great experimenter himself. But there was skill behind this experiment, and when amateurs engaged in their games under the guise of experiments, as they say, it is a degradation, a substitution for something higher, authentic and truly spiritual.
I remember a time when spirituality was laughed at. And they said that it was all out of trend, as they would say today about the direction where art was going. In this sense, the Golden Mask, on the one hand, has raised the bar a lot. But, forgive me for being blunt, after the socialist realism shows in the 60s, when there were amazing master directors who created in spite of everything, many of the works of their contemporaries were outside art. I say this with bitterness.
"I was sitting open-mouthed at Tovstonogov's rehearsals"
— Who would you single out from those who created within the framework of social realism?
— Number one is my teacher Georgy Aleksandrovich Tovstonogov at the BDT. I sat open-mouthed at his rehearsals. At his house, they spent hours talking about life and art. And I was a fool not to write anything down.
Yuri Petrovich Lyubimov, who was aesthetically opposed to Tovstonogov at Taganka. The lump. And Anatoly Vasilyevich Efros, Peter Naumovich Fomenko, Mark Anatolyevich Zakharov. They worked not only in the 60s, but also further. They were highly qualified professionals. There was no question of any amateurism.
— What prevents the current generation of directors?
— The permissiveness that has arisen, the lack of culture. What is the directing profession? It is the ability to serve deep meanings and the ability to find them with a full variety and freedom of expression. Isn't that right? But when I see the so-called helpless directing, where the main thing is showing off, it hurts me.
— And how do you feel about undressing, matting on stage? Is this also a manifestation of freedom?
— You know, in general, anything is possible in the theater. And undressing, and even an obscene word that enriches the Russian language. Our classics, from Pushkin to Mayakovsky and beyond, quite often resorted to a strong word. But for what? For the truth of life — that's what!.. After all, the purpose of art is true, isn't it?
Vakhtangov asked questions: why are you going into the profession, why are you putting on this performance, how much have you suffered, found your pain points, and how honest are you? And when you hold your left ear with your right hand, just to be cool... Every performance should be a message of this very truth.
What is a director anyway? This is the creator of the world. Every performance of yours should be a sacred act.
— Well, you're taking it to the highest level.
— Only for the highest! If you're not up to the highest standard, get the hell out of the profession! The fact of the matter is that the bar was lowered. I have always been for innovation in the theater. In no case is there any retrogression in my words. But we must state with some bitterness that the fundamental values of art have often been trampled upon, in the literal sense of the word. And this greatly hindered the development of the theater audience and the theater itself.
— Are you still sure that this is possible?
— Absolutely. The attack on culture by commercial art and entertainment has corrupted the mores and needs of the audience. We stopped distinguishing between a work of art, something real, with pain, and a fake.
— Is pain mandatory in the theater?
— There is no Russian art without pain. This is an axiom that the classics gave us. And we treat this with disdain. Isn't that right?
"The queue at the theater is lined up like in Soviet times at a liquor store"
— The Moscow Department of Culture has introduced new rules for visiting the theater. Tickets are purchased using passports, and you come to the performance with a document. Will this turn the viewer away from the theater?
— On March 15, when the new rules were introduced, we were worried about how quickly we would let everyone through to the sold-out performance of The Three Musketeers. I had to check my documents. And there was a queue outside the theater, just like in Soviet times at a liquor store. It was unnerving, of course. But a few days have passed, and somehow everything has stabilized, no excesses.
We contacted the department and said we couldn't get 200 people through one door without delay. They asked me to arrange another entrance. They helped us instantly, and thank them for that. We allocated funds for a metal detector frame. I think in a few days there won't be any crowds at the entrance before the performances start.
— Some viewers are afraid to show their passport information to buy theater tickets.
— Well, that's another problem. After all, how is the innovation explained? The fight against speculators. But in fact, this is a struggle not so much with speculators as with the audience. And the police have to fight the dealers.
— Apparently, culture has a weak lobby.
— I don't think the lobby is to blame. In general, we don't get around to culture quite often. And most importantly, there is no equality in approach.
Our professional community lacks two regulations. First, it's about the theater, which would regulate the equality of institutions. Otherwise, we have oligarch theaters, middle-class theaters, and homeless theaters. In Russia, there was such a law — to help the poor, not the rich, first of all. And we give the rich more than the poor.
— And secondly?
— There is a lack of a well-developed law on patronage. Right now we only have the appearance of it. Those who invest in culture should be exempt from taxes to some extent.
— The economists' term "mergers and acquisitions" is used in relation to cultural institutions. Famous scenes unite. What used to be managed by two or three people should now be managed by one. We are told that there is a shortage of personnel in the culture.
— Not only one artistic director, but also one accounting department, one director. It's not for me to judge this.
— Are you not going to be united with anyone?
— I cultivate my garden to the best of my ability, as they say. There are 800 state theaters in the country. There is nothing like it in any country in the world. On the one hand, this is our treasure, our achievement.
— And then the state should support him.
—That's right. But reality has led to the fact that theaters are being told to earn for themselves. That's right. But commercialization is harmful to art. Let's be honest, there are not enough funds. And what are the ticket prices in Moscow theaters!
"During the bombing, saving me, my grandmother was wounded in the leg"
— In some theaters, prices are comparable to the "Nutcracker" at the Bolshoi, where a ticket costs 50 thousand.
— When I found out that one ticket — not a big One — costs 45 thousand rubles, my hair stood on end. Do you know how the Moscow Art Theater began?
— As available.
— Publicly available. Then, however, this sign was removed. Because it has become the theater of the intelligentsia. The theater lives and is formed together with the country. And now a contradiction is brewing. Some theaters are getting richer, subsidizing them on a grand scale, while others are saving on everything. And it does not depend on the occupancy of the hall.
The theater "At Nikitsky Gate" even during the time of covid demonstrated absolutely fantastic results. When we were allowed to let 30% of the audience into the hall and everyone was wearing masks, people still wanted to go to the theater. Although it was a tremendous psychological challenge for the artists to play at full strength for a hall with empty seats. Maybe it's immodest, but we're spoiled by full houses.
— In covid, Vladimir Mashkov got out of the situation at Oleg Tabakov's Theater by putting mannequins in empty seats. And when the artist looked into the hall, it seemed to him that he was full.
— Well done. It's a good directorial technique. You understand, unfortunately, an artist is a secondary profession, very dependent on the director, on a small salary. I'm not taking stars that live in another dimension right now. The artists at the Nikitsky Gate Theater are hard workers. We have a studio groundwork. And this is what Stanislavsky aspired to. And I, like Konstantin Sergeyevich, collected artists. He matched one to the other. Their personalities were nurtured here thanks to the literature and drama that we worked on. And today I have a phenomenal troupe that can solve, without boasting, any artistic tasks that I can set for them.
I have another way. I worked at the Moscow Art Theater, BDT. At that time, the doors of all the theaters in the country opened in front of me. I could get a job almost anywhere I wanted. But I decided to create my own theater from scratch.
— Are you satisfied with your troupe?
- of course. Vladimir Yumatov, who became a People's Artist of Russia in our theater, is filming a lot, and now he combines work here and at Lenkom. Mark Zakharov, with whom we started together at the Moscow State University Theater, lured him to his place, gave him a salary that we could not afford.
There is a whole galaxy of stars of our theater: People's Artist of Russia, State Prize winner Valery Sheiman, Honored Artist Denis Yuchenkov, my brilliant pupil Yana Prygankova. And Yuri Golubtsov was a history teacher, now an honored artist, leading actor and director. Just like Igor Skripko, by the way, who tried his hand at directing and made a play based on my play "I am Maya," dedicated to Maya Plisetskaya. The production is a huge success. An artist with a powerful talent, Alexander Masalov, plays in Salieri's Amadeus, a role that I did at the Moscow Art Theater with Oleg Pavlovich Tabakov. But Sasha doesn't imitate him. You can't list them all! The young team is very strong.
— Few people know, but you are also a composer, you write songs and perform.
— I rather hum my own songs, more often in a circle of friends. I have an author's theater and the singing is also author's. It started, by the way, with Tovstonogov. Yes, and in the studio "Our house" I composed, and my friends picked up and recorded melodies.
— And you didn't know how to read music?
- no. When there was a war in 1944, my grandmother took me to the Gnessin school. I was seven years old. I sang "The sea is wide" and "Katyusha". And Elena Fabianovna Gnesina herself listened to me. It turned out that I have absolute hearing. She said to me, "Baby, give me a paw" (laughs). She took my hand, shook it, and said an incomprehensible phrase: "There's a good distance between the fingers. Piano class". And I studied at the Gnessin school for two years. Unfortunately, I had to interrupt my studies. We lived in the basement. There was no tool, and no money. Grandma was sick. During the evacuation, saving me, she was wounded in the leg. She covered me with herself, protected me from the splinter. Otherwise, maybe I would have graduated from the Gnessin school and become a pianist.
— And how did you end up under the bombing?
— Five days before the war, I was sent to a children's resort in Anapa. My grandmother and mother come from this city. It took us two years to return to Moscow. We were transported to Central Asia. We were refugees. To return to Moscow, you needed a pass, and it was difficult to get one. And when we were traveling in the train, the train was bombed. And my Russian grandmother, saving a puny child, got a splinter in her leg. Maybe it was meant for me.
"The Story of a Horse," with my music, was even performed on Broadway."
— The performance "The Story of the Horse" at the BDT with People's Artist of the USSR Evgeny Lebedev has become a legend. You've put it on your stage, too. And where else was "The Story of the Horse"?
— The play was a huge success and traveled the world. When they brought him to the Avignon Festival, the great director Peter Brook told the audience before the start of his production: "Go and see how the Russians play Tolstoy." "The Story of a Horse" with my music was even staged on Broadway. We bought the rights through RAO and staged the musical "Strider". So the play continues to live.
— Previously, American theaters acquired the rights to stage Russian dramaturgy. And now our culture is being "abolished".
— How can you do without it? Russian culture is the most powerful component of world culture. It's ridiculous to deny it. No other nation in the world has such gigantism in literature and music, which our compatriots demonstrated in the 19th and 20th centuries. They're not going anywhere without us.
— You will turn 88 on April 3. It's a beautiful date. How do you feel about age?
— Well, if you put it on its side, then there are two infinities. As long as you live in the world, you want to believe that it will always be like this. No, it won't always be like this. I am often asked, "Who is your successor?" Well, really, I'm 88 years old.
"And?"
— I don't think about it. After Tovstonogov's departure, BDT became different. After Meyerhold, who was shot, there is nothing to talk about at all. Even the Moscow Art Theater changed after Yefremov, and then after Tabakov.
— Every artist, coming to the theater, begins to create it for himself. Without regard to the predecessors.
— But in vain. You see, the same Meyerhold went to all the performances of Stanislavsky. And Stanislavsky watched all of Meyerhold's plays. I'm sorry, I've been working in my theater for 42 years, and I dare say that due to our sold-out shows and the variety of our repertoire, some of our colleagues may be interested in us. But I have enough fingers on one hand to tell you the names of Moscow artistic directors who would know what is going on in my theater.
We are very divided. This is one of the troubles associated with commercialization, because everyone is trying to find their way to the top. And professional unity is not very noticeable today. Although the directors' lodge is trying to unite us all somehow. And, relatively speaking, there is no "director's box" in Moscow.
We can be different and completely different from each other, but we must have a professional inner attraction to each other. I think it's necessary.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
